Why I Resigned from Mindshifters Radio

1/10/2026

Dear Michael and Jeanie,

I want to begin by thanking you Both for all of the benefits that your hard work, time, intelligence, money, and energy has afforded me over the past 22 years.  It has been at least as much of an honor to assist you on your mission as it was a challenge!

Next, please understand that I offer this as the process of termination, or as I call it these days “Saying Goodbye to Good People  Without Saying Goodbye To  Good Memories”. That process invites one to review and catalog the memories of the relationship, as they feel all the feelings, (laughter, tears, shaking, rage, etc.).  The process invites one to review the memories with an eye toward what one thinks were the life lessons learned by both parties. (Including the easy, the medium, and the very hard).

This does not mean the relationship has to be over.  The process is very useful whenever there is a significant change in the relationship.  The key is to understand that things have changed, and whatever follows will be different.  This is a process to honor and solidify what has occurred and make certain what has been learned remains conscious and accessible for future reference.

There is no need to respond in any way. 

I offer this review of the relationship as a memoir and as a letter of gratitude.

Twenty-two years or so ago, when my friend sent me the four hour audio of Michael’s talk, Why Is This Happening To Me  Again, it came into my life at the perfect time. At that time I was struggling to make sense of a divorce I did not want while staying, loving and respectful in my dealings with my ex-wife.  As I listened to Michael’s work it felt like coming home and it felt almost exactly like what I had been teaching people in therapy for almost 30 years. The two critical things that Michael had that were new to me were the page 12-step worksheet and the connection to the ancient Aramaic.

It was proverbially “the perfect” time for the material to find its way into my life.  I remember you both coming to the Unity Church when it was still in the Mason’s building in Crystal Lake, IL. 

I vividly remember one talk Michael gave at the School of Intuitive Arts and Sciences in Fox River Grove, IL.  Michael asked the audience to remember some of the worst things that had happened in our lives, and choose one that was at least five years in the past.  Then he asked people to raise their hands if they could see how that event had led either directly or indirectly to some of the best things in their life today.  Every hand in the audience went up, including mine.  At that moment something popped, crackled, flipped, (there aren’t really words for “it”), in my brain, and I heard an involuntary voice in my head repeating, “I don’t want to wait five years!”.  I didn’t know what it meant, but a couple days later I awoke with a full-blown visceral sense that I needed to begin a new, all-day, every day practice of scanning my mind and body for the earliest possible signs of tension, resistance, or negative emotion, then, instantly turn my focus inside to my breath as I asked a series of questions.  Question like, “How am I creating this emotion?”, and “What am I making this mean?”, or “I wonder how this is going to turn into a blessing?”, or “I wonder how this is going to turn out better than anything I had planned?”, or “I wonder how this might lead to me meeting people I wouldn’t have met otherwise – and how they might bless my life, or me theirs, in ways I never would have guessed.?”

That practice began to transform my life, and continues to bless me to this day.  After about three years of daily, all-day practice, people started commenting on how well I would move through difficult and disruptive situations.  I have shared the process with many people in individual sessions as well as the internet show and support groups. At the five year mark, I was routinely smiling and chuckling through situations which I would have used in the past to generate anger, fear, etc..  At the fifteen year mark I was blind-sided in my car by one of four cars involved in a crash that “totaled” all four cars, and that practice guided me through that experience in ways I have never found words to express.  I believe it allowed me to be a loving presence that offered a life-line to the suicidal 17 year old who fell asleep at the wheel on his way home from a night shift.  Tools, tools, tools.  Thank You Michael and Jeanie!

I always found it a challenge to hear Michael’s “live forever” ideas, and so I had to develop tolerance, and patience for staying in the discussion whenever that topic arose. 

I had to work on my patience as I tried to follow David Hayes’ logic on the internet show.  I also had to work extra hard to deal with David’s anger energy, which I got better and better at with the use of the Reality Management Worksheet and lots of EFT tapping. 

Then there was Michael’s insistence on changing the worksheet soon and often.  Wow, did that give me “opportunities to learn forgiveness”.  Michael just kept insisting that I was being rigid, and needed to do worksheets on my not wanting to change worksheets.  I failed, miserably, to get him to understand that I had already been using it in my practice, and my patient notes were full of references to “The Reality Management Worksheet “, and I was concerned about the consistency and appropriateness of changing it, “with each change in the wind”.  More learning, and more development of my ability to tolerate and work with “the boulders” in life.

Jeanie has always amazed me with her work ethic, and perseverance, as well as her passion for learning whatever she needed to got a job done!  I have many vivid memories of wondering how she keeps going!  I feel it’s important to note that Jeanie exemplified a willingness to dive-in and learn and grow, even with things she did not prefer!  The biggest example of this – and there were many – is how she stepped in to run the kitchen in intensives, when David left you both high and dry, or when Ari was not available!  She lived amazing examples of strength, courage, and perseverance!  One of my regrets is that I couldn’t find a way to express my gratitude and admiration for Jeanie’s presence in a way that would allow her to Feel the Truth of it for herself! 

There is a similar gift I received by watching Michael as he went out year after year on another tour of workshops.  Clearly there were some similar gifts each of us got from our parents related to work ethic and values!  I also learned, and struggled with Michael’s style of “winging it” in his presentations.  I learned to get better at going with the flow with many things in my life from that example.

I learned a great deal about people, hero worship, idealization, and clashing egos as I watched which people Michael would allow to “go on and on” on the internet show, and which one’s he would cut-off almost immediately.  I struggled with this for years, and found wonderful life lessons in the process.  I even found some comfort when reading how Paramahansa Yogananda struggled without the same set of issues with his guru.

My four or five times at Heartland were definitely intense, and valuable, yet nothing like a vacation!  So, I didn’t go as often as I would have imagined when I first went.  I deeply value the parade of people who I met through my times there.  The many names on that list include “Saint Jane” Evanstar, who emailed me soon after our first intensive together to tell me that my blog posts about Michael’s work and our Tuesday support group were “exactly like The Way of Mastery”.  So, I instantly ordered the book, and it remains the most read and re-read book of my short life. 

Other life-changing introductions included Ari, Susan Darnell, (burned hand, and BEMER gift included), Julie Haverstick, Terry Bowling, Dave Gilbert from the Tuesday support group who is a Vietnam veteran and participated with others in the Recovery Wednesday shows,  Gail from southern Illinois who began driving to Woodstock- four or five hours – to attend the Tuesday group, Magda, Sonny, (worksheets, tapping, and NET galore there), Julie in Oregon. The list goes on and on, and on and on.

I know this for sure, that my training in public speaker training began a number of years before meeting Michael and the work, yet I can easily say that my desire to be a professional representative of this work urged me to take more classes and work harder at it.  I remember the struggle I had with wanting to promote the work, and still be here in Crystal Lake for my sons, my mother and my sister.  Many worksheets on that, and many multiples of  revisions to my “Secondary Purpose”.  Eventually, as the internet expanded video capability, I was able to strike a “balance” of sorts by spending many more hours promoting the work through the internet while staying at home. 

Perhaps another blessing for you was the example I modeled of constructing my life around supporting my family by staying close to home.

As I got deeper into Michael’s set of tools, and applying them in my life, I realized that the professional speaking I was doing was not as aligned with my values and priorities, so, I resigned as executive director of the networking speakers group, and focused on talks that would find a home at Unity, Unitarian Universalist, and Religious Science churches.  That was a huge shift in my life, and while I generated many fears about it at first, I now look at it as a very good decision.

As I typed the last section I remembered the time that you both got on the phone and proposed to me that it would be a great idea for me to move to Parumph Nevada, to set up shop with the good doctor there, and teach Michael’s tools.  Boy did I do a boatload of worksheets and NET sessions on that one.  There never have been words to describe how bizarre that suggestion seemed to me!  The struggle I had to resolve my desire to please, and support the two of you, and how that conflicted with the commitments I had to my family, my groups, my private practice, and my friends in this area required reams of paper worksheets to resolve.  There was no Forgiveness App at that time.  I have since learned that, as Michael has come to call it, “framing a goal” for someone else, is something Michael feels very comfortable doing.  What I had to work hard to uncover and process was that Michael was suggesting something that was focused solely on what would be good for the work, without any understanding of me or my situation.  This taught me another level of the truth, that only I am responsible for my choices, and if I don’t have clarity on my values and mission, I can easily make choices to “please” others, and then blame them when I don’t like the results.

Humor has been a big, “sleeper” issue in my relationship with Michael over the years.  Our senses of humor didn’t initially strike me as that far off, and yet…  We have had several interactions in which my chuckling was interpreted by Michael as offensive.  So, again I returned to the worksheets and began dismantling the hurt, fear, and frustration I would generate.  I know that for a good, long while there I actively hid or suppressed my amusement or chuckles.  Eventually, I did enough work on it to allow myself to chuckle or laugh out loud, and just let others have their reactions.

Values and morals were another area of challenge for me.  I think my greatest lesson here was being gentle with myself and others when we don’t see things the same way.  Of course I got many, many chances to work on that over the years, as the perceptions I created over the years grew away from the perceptions Michael created.  In the area of values and morals I struggled with what I perceived as harsh judgment from Michael when people didn’t share his values and morals.  My perception was that Michael used ancient texts, and “Laws” as a platform to justify his being “in the right”.  I struggled mightily to resolve a variety of negative emotions I generated around this set of issues.  I came into this work with a solid sense that I had enough of a challenge deciding what was best for me, that I didn’t feel comfortable telling others that what they were doing was wrong, whether with their sexuality, politics, or any other aspect of their lives.  So, when my perception was that Michael was “sitting in judgment” of someone else, I would generate my own judgment of Michael and then run to the worksheets to dismantle my upset.  For the most part I was successful at going with the flow in that regard in the groups and on the internet show, until the events on, and following, Michael’s hour of the show on 5/10/2019.  This series of events made it clear to me that Michael and I were much further apart in some of our understandings and perceptions than I had ever imagined.

The fact that this occurred just months after I committed to doing an extra hour of internet show five days a week, and had expanded my physical office space so that I could donate my time to host an additional support group on Thursday nights, and invested considerable money to expand exposure of this work, it really challenged my abilities to own my own emotions, and focus on the tools.  There is no doubt that I am a more loving, respectful, and balanced person today because I chose to use the tools, rather than blame outside events and other people’s choices for my upset.

I just thought of calling my sons – and that triggered memories of 2008, when I arranged for you to come to town, and present a week at a larger Unity church in Chicago, (they opted out a week before your arrival).  So, you were at my house when my son was going on a cross-country bicycle tour without a helmet or maps, despite all my efforts to get him special cycling route maps and a helmet.  Then, one day, you and my son left the house and when you returned, he had maps and a helmet!  It was like magic!

Also, during that visit, my other son was facing jail time for felonies and misdemeanors he had pending from a stunt he pulled as a senior in high school.  When you arrived and heard of the situation, you very graciously offered to intervene with the judge and district attorney to arrange for my son to “do his time” at Heartland.  A wonderful offer!  He however, declined because he found too many references to God on your website.  I know that throughout this intense period my “consistent and persistent” use of the tools was a significant part of my being able to replicate the Loving, Respectful responses that my parents modeled for me in difficult situations.  (That son is a wonderful, loving, productive adult today – because of his decision to change direction after several rough years.)

Another big learning piece for me was when Terry Livingood visited during one intensive, and I just happened to be sitting on the floor of the Heart Center, just a few feet from Michael and Terry as they had a disagreement about who should get the profits from the books Terry sold at the intensive.  I still remember that intensely uncomfortable feeling which flooded my body.  Attached to the physical sensation was an old thought pattern of just wanting, “harmony and peace at all costs”.  I remember thinking, perhaps for the first time in my life, that maybe the feeling I had wasn’t the best, or the only good way to respond to conflict.  This got expanded, and deepened over the years as I did many multiples of the Three Early Memories of Conflict worksheet.  There was so much of an improvement in my quality of life from this one series of lessons that it is difficult to put into words!

It came to me after about six hours of writing on this work, that I should look at the lessons for me around my pattern of not wanting to be, “The Front Man”.  By that I mean, over the years I have approached a series of people and offered to be a trainer for their work.  That list includes, but is not limited to; Dr. Scott Walker with NET, Bruce Ecker with Coherence Therapy, Guy Finley with his work, and finally Dr. Michael Ryce, who “allowed” me to teach and promote his work.  The series of worksheets on that topic have already started, and promise to be helpful.

This work asks me to be clear about how I think I may have been a blessing to others as well as how they have blessed me.  To that end I think I have been a blessing in more ways than just promoting the tools.  It may not have been as much as I would have liked to give, yet as far as I am aware, each and every time Jeanie or Michael let is know about a financial need, (van breaking down was a recurring problem, etc.) I gave what I could without completely breaking my little piggy bank.  Here’s hoping that was as much a blessing in your life as I had intended.

Then there is the brand new awareness, which arose last night as I was engaging this process.  I flashed on the memory of how I ignored signs of Michael’s anger issues from the first time I heard his voice on the phone.  After I had listened to the four hour CD set many times, I stumbled upon and began connecting with, the late, David Hayes who had started, and was running a Mindshifters Support Group fifteen minutes from my office.  When I first called David’s cell phone he informed me that he was sorry he missed getting to know me, because he wasn’t coming back to lead the group.  I was surprised, and went to tell Patrick at the School that David wasn’t coming back and I offered to run the group for him.  As the weeks passed David returned, then left again several times.  One day my friend Patrick from the school asked me about where David was, and whether I could find out if he was returning to run the group.  By that time I had the phone number for Heartland from the CD’s, though I had never used it.  For well more than a year I had heard Michael’s voice on these CD’s but had never spoken with him.

I still remember it like it was yesterday.  Michael Ryce himself answered the phone, which shocked me!  When I told him I was trying to discover whether David was going to return to run the support group Michael said the following words, “David Hayes is going to be at Heartland for at least a year!”.  Now, when I tell you the words I heard, I am telling you nothing about the increased volume, change in tone, or harshness of tone that I experienced on that phone call.  I knew instantly that Michael had intense anger issues.  This was his first encounter with someone who had been sharing his work with others, and singing his praises, and something got resonated in Michael that prompted him to do what I can only call “barking” at me. 

Yet, as time went on and I kept listening to the CD’s over and over again, and held the support group, and did many worksheets, I was able to convince myself that Michael was aware of his anger and had successfully dismantled it.  So, I ignored the huge red flag and marched on.  As with so many things in my life, and just like the exercise I mentioned earlier, even, and especially those things I find bad, tragic, or catastrophic will eventually lead to some of the best things in my life, if I am willing to learn the lesson.  If I had listened to my gut, which told me Michael doesn’t practice what he preaches enough for me to be comfortable, and if I had run the other way, I would have sidestepped 22 years of growth and community.

Another huge life lesson for me was about letting go!  I am getting better at it the more I pair calming breath with the statement that, “I cancel my need to be right.  I cancel my need for anyone or anything to change, including myself!”  I am developing muscle memory for the internal physiological shift I experience when I really have “let it go”.

One of my hopes over the past seven years was that I could find a way to help Michael see some of his blind spots.  I had wrongly hoped, that with all of the time, time, time, and  money, money, money, I had freely given, and all of the typed and spoken messages about how I am on his side, I would be able to get him to talk to me about the issues I felt were critical.  That was Wrong!  It’s silly really when one considers that I preach to people, and give each of my patients a copy of The Bottom Line Observations, and the first one is, “If whatever I am doing isn’t working, I should feel free to try something else”.  Yet, there I was for over two years, waiting, sending another request, waiting, sending another request, being encouraged by Michael texting that he was working on it, or had already spent three hours on it, and it is taking so much time precisely because it is so important, etc, etc,.  Finally, after two years, Michael sent a text containing the statement that he has no intention of talking to me, because he experienced my behavior as so brutal, and he had no reason to believe that I wouldn’t do it again. 

This proved to be one of the most valuable gifts Michael has ever given me.  I immediately began doing worksheets, EFT tapping, and NET sessions with this new information.  Prior to this, I just kept thinking that if I were patient enough, and apologized enough, “for whatever I did that was so offensive”, and asked in a different way, or demonstrated my loyalty by continuing to donate my time and money to promoting his work, that he would see that I am worthy to talk to!  Several days after Michael sent that text, I had been up in the middle of the night twice doing some worksheets, and upon waking I had the knowing that I needed to disrupt my morning routine and spend time journaling.  It turned into close to an hour of writing before scrambling to get to work.  Then, on the seven minute ride to work it hit me like a bolt of lightning!  I still remember where I was on the road.  I started laughing at myself as I realized that for over two years, I had been focused on something I had no control over!  I was focused on getting Michael to agree to a phone or video call, and I could not make him do that!  I was doing the same thing, over, and over, and over again, while not getting the results I wanted. 

This was another of those moments in life that defy my attempts to describe them with words.  I felt fifty pounds lighter!  I laughed about that realization for days following my initial shock!  I was then able to completely change the focus of my personal work, to decide if I could rationalize staying on the internet show and the support groups, without lying to people.  Many, many worksheets and NET sessions later, and only because we now had separate hours of the internet show, I was able to convince myself that I was still being of service, even though I couldn’t succeed in getting Michael to address the issues I had raised.  I made a commitment to myself to monitor Michael’s hour of the internet show listening for any “deal-breakers” that would require my resignation, since I no longer had the ability to offer Michael feedback.

I believe I was able to stay honest with myself, the internet show audience, and both support groups, by separating out Michael the person, from his triggered, angry, harsh energy reactions.  I believe I was able to do worksheets, EFT, and NET, until I could talk quietly and respectfully about what I experienced, and only then share it with the show or the groups.  I was also able to reach out and support people, privately, when I experienced them as having been the recipient of Michael’s “off the mark” energies, words, or behaviors.

That changed recently after interactions between Michael and an internet show regular caller.  The Mindshifter Radio episodes that are related to this may still be available in the Mindshifters Radio archives.  (12-12-2025, 12-16-2025, 12-17-2025, 12-22-2025, and 1-5-2026).  The interaction between Michael and callers on 12-16-2025 showed up, (in my mind through the process of my perception), as images of Michael building a platform for 30 minutes, which would support him in rationalizing that something this other person did, “shattered” the mood like a “bulldozer”.  To my mind, this went against everything I have heard Michael preach for over twenty years.  Equally importantly for me was that my mind showed me a member of the community getting scapegoated.  I know the disruption that this most often creates in a community, and how other community members learn very quickly to avoid certain topics, or avoid sharing openly, because they now know people can get “blamed”, and maybe even exiled for saying the wrong thing.

So, I knew instantly when I heard this show that I would have to leave and that I wanted to be using the tools every step of the way, and combine them with the exceptionally Loving and Respectful model my parents gave me, to create a transition from a twenty-two year relationship that is unlike anything that has been modeled for me in this culture.

Another blessing I believe I brought to this community, and at times a serious growth challenge for me came in the form of many people reaching out to gossip to me about Michael.  While none of us is perfect, I entered this work with almost thirty years of experience at keeping confidentiality, and a strong dislike of gossip.  Most of the time when people wanted to tell me stories about Michael, I would either let them know I would rather not hear it, or if I felt they were well intentioned, I would listen and restrict my responses to various forms of the statement, “That sounds difficult.  It sounds like you should go and talk to Michael.”.  For the past seven years, I have been limited to either cutting it off, or listening and stating that it sounds difficult, then offering to support them in worksheets, or EFT tapping.

I remember a wedding at Heartland, and the struggles I had with the neuropathy and weak ankles.  I didn’t think I would make it back up from the lake, and then someone offered to let me squeeze into their van. 

Another blessing in my life grew from what I did in response to Michael’s “can-do” attitude.  I remember many times over the years when an opportunity would present itself and Michael would just launch into it.  This, as most things in life can be a double edged sword.  For the pleasant and productive part of this lesson, I challenged myself more to stretch my comfort zone by following Michael’s example.  This presented me with abundant growth opportunities.

The downside of Michael’s modeling here was several projects that didn’t pan out, and despite my reluctance I jumped in with him anyway.  I remember the “For Profit” charity model that, even though it seemed way too good to be true, Michael sold it with such passion that I jumped on board.  He had traveled out to personally meet with the principal developers of the model, and he knew they were good people.  Today, I wish I had that money to invest directly into one of the projects to expand the exposure to the tools.  Live and learn they say.

A huge, major ripple in my life came through the Heartland intensive in which I drove Mark Hattas down to Heartland.  Once there, Mark and I met Rex, among others, and Rex attached himself to Mark so thoroughly that he finagled a ride home with me.  All the way home they talked about the need to take Michael’s work to a broader audience.  They were moving in that direction when, six months later, Rex’s son died from mental health problems.  They eventually created a company called Rookha Group, and eventually developed a nonprofit entity called Journey’s Dream.  Once Journey’s Dream was up and running, they asked me to be on the board.  When I agreed, they said, you are in charge of a committee that will include doing a podcast.  That little project wouldn’t have happened without Michael and Jeanie hosting us all at Heartland.

That series of events has resulted in over 206 interviews of people with lived experience of recovering from mental health challenges, as well as a wide range of professionals offering functional and holistic approaches to helping people with their mental health challenges.  The people I have had the pleasure of talking to, and learning from, grew exponentially from that opportunity – and my choice to live up to Michael’s example of, “dive in”!

Then there was the wonderful introduction to Dale Allen Hoffman and all the Blessings and challenges those relationships have graced me with.  There is another book chapter to write about the parade of books, learnings, and people who have found their way into my life through that set of connections!

The list of Blessings to my life, that have come directly from knowing Michael and Jeanie Ryce over the past 22 years, is long and ever growing!

More entries are likely!

1-31-2026

I have been feeling much “lighter” and more optimistic since choosing to resign from Mindshifters Radio and affiliation with Dr. Ryce.  I know in my bones that it was the right time, and the right thing to do.  Also, there is much to work through since it is the ending of a twenty-two year relationship ship which was much more involved and intense than most work relationships.

So, over the past week, I have been having thoughts about how difficult this must be for Michael, since he seems to feel as though I attacked him, and abandoned him.  I have deep compassion for him in this situation, in part because I remember how intense and disruptive it was for me when Dr. Palya accused me of betraying him, by “spying” on him for the Humanistic Psychology Department.

I ache, at different times throughout the day, as I focus on thoughts of Michael suffering, and my wanting to help him in some way.  I know that I am powerless to get Michael to engage with me, and even if he did choose to talk there is no guarantee that anything I say would lead to reconciliation.  Indeed, I have read back through the various messages I have sent to Michael which specifically spell out the fact that I am “on his side”, and only want the best for him and this community.  If those messages, stated as clearly and directly as I know how, can’t motivate Michael to engage with me, then I don’t know what else there is for me to do.